| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
J'as Salarkin
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
11
   |
Posted - 2012.08.31 14:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have posted this once before, but I might as well re-post it:
Seriously, it is the answer to all your disagreements (I know a strong statement, but hear me out).
The first part of the probelm is that the cost of your pod and/or your implants stop you from engaging in PvP. The second part of the problem is that people want to keep the learning implants as a means to keep their advantage over others, risk vs rewards and all that stuff.
The solution: Disposable clones!
A disposable clone is a clone you can jump into when you are about to engagage in PvP. The clone does not support any implants or drugs what-so-ever, has a limited lifespan (the biological raw material was of low quality and falls apart eventually). Thus when you what to do some nice PvP, without having to clone jump back and forth you just activate a disposable clone at your current station and fly off in your nice little ship. Once you are dead you wake up in your old "normal" clone.
The price for the disposable clone and the time limit is something CCP can decide on, giving numbers here would just take the focus away from the idea.
Why is this good?
People can PvP without risking their nice little implants and an expensive clone. However using the disposable clone means that you can not plugg in any implants or use any drugs. Thus the risk vs reward is still there: You can still choose to use a normal clone with implants if you want the advanatge. If you get caught while doing PvE you will most likely be in your normal clone and loose the implants as you normally would.
Would this get people to do more PvP? Absolutely!
Would it get more people into low and null? Yes!
Do you still keep the risk vs reward dilemma? Yes
Do you keep all the implants for the poeple that like to invest in +5 implants? Yes
Problem solved! Now please send my your iskies as a payment for this marvelous idea! |
J'as Salarkin
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 14:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Or just don't use implants if you can't afford to lose them. Not rocket science here, and no reason to add more complexity when its not needed. Also your 3rd point contradicts your 4th point.
Your first point is valid. You are however admitting to be a person to be totally against removing the learning implants. Others wants them gone. I am giving a middle way here. Besides the point still holds. You CAN use the implants if you can afford to lose them. My idea just makes it easier not to use them (an equally effectiv idea would be to remove the timer on clone jumping, but that would just bring lots and lots of other problems instead)
My 3rd and 4th points does not contradict as you can still choose to risk your implants if you so do choose: Imagine doing PvE stuff such as mining in null sec. Most people would keep their normal clone to use their learning implants while they mine. They are thus risking their implants as they normally would. People that know they are about to jump into a big fight with bubbles everywhere would most likely choose the disposable clone yes, but I am hoping that you should still consider my idea "better" than just removing the implants totally.
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J'as Salarkin
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 15:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Roime wrote:Implants don't prevent PVP. Yes, they do. No, they unequivocally do not. Your aversion to risking those implants is what prevents PVP. Do you fly around in ships that you can't afford to lose? If yes, you're an idiot. If no, apply the same logic to implants. If you can't afford to lose the implants in your head, don't plug them in. It's so simple.
Implants on there own does not prevent PvP yes, plugging them in does! I think we both agree on this.
However, there is a mechanic that allows one to not risk them: clone jumping, a cumbersome and complicated process if one just want to enjoy some PvP once in a while. Especially for a new player access to jump clones will be limited, thus preventing PvP and in extension making the game more boring for all players. For part time players (like myself) the clone jumping is annoying to take part in as one would have to log on again 24 hours later to jump back into the learning implant clone to not lose several days of bonused training.
My suggestion should give both sides of the argument a middle ground to agree on! Its a win-win situation, now send me those iskies g-dammit!
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J'as Salarkin
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 15:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Yes I do agree that your idea is better then a blanket removal. However what you are suggesting isn't really risk. you have almost complete control over when that risks occurs. The whole basis of risk is that you don't have a choice, that's what makes it what it is. I see what you doing by taking the middle ground however I still don't see it as being needed. This is Eve **** happens and people die, you need to have the mentality that its going to happen and plan accordingly, not change the mechanics to suit those who don't want to.
This I can agree on: implementing a disposable clone will reduce the risk vs reward aspect of PvP (but not totally removing it).
However! There is already a mechanism for this: clonejumping. Sadly the mechanics is best suited for experienced players and players with plenty of time to log in to eve as I stated in my post just above this one.
I do plan accordingly, at the momenet I have a bad internet commention and a bad computer that once in a while crashes (all due to temporarily living in a different country) thus I do not venture into low that often and null almost not at all at the moment. I do not want to risk my implants in low just to get disconnected at a gate somewhere and come back to my fresh clone and I do not have the time to log on every night to manage my clone jumping. If I could jump into a disposable clone I would travel much more often into low and null (looking for PvP and PvE, with the involuntary PvP that comes with that). I could only imagine that many other players is in the same situation. |
J'as Salarkin
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 15:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ensign X wrote:No, we don't agree. Plugging in implants has a variety of effects on your character, but it's ones own aversion to risk that prevents them from PVPing while those implants are plugged in and most certainly not the implants themselves. The risk averse in EVE should not be coddled. Even less so when those who are risk averse hang out in areas of the game that increase risk or expect risk at every corner.
I have to admit, I am not sure where you disagree with me...plugging in implants is a choice you make, risking them is a choice you make... not wanting to use them in PvP is also a choice.
A disposable jump clone does not remove that, it just makes the choices easier to implement. People that have implants plugged in will get bonus over poeple that use a disposable clone (both learning speed and bonuses from pirate implants and hardwirings). As the disposable clone only would work for a limited time it would not be that useful. I personally like going on extended exploration trips into low and even null. For this I would not be able to use a disposable clone as my time would be limited and I do not want to miss out on my learning and scanning strengths implants.
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J'as Salarkin
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 16:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Instead of making a disposable clone just allow JC in the same station and lower the cooldown(but don't remove it). The issue I have with disposable is that from the sounds of it there is no cooldown. There should be some risk when flying in a implanted clone even if that means you choose to sit a fight out if your that risk adverse. While it may suck for them that's the risk they take.
One could of course add a cool down to it, I would not object, even if it was set at 24 hours just like the regular jump clones (but on a separate timer from the normal jump clones). Might as well set the life-timer on the activated disposable clone to 24 hours too then. That means one could only engage in "risk free" (you can still lose your ship and you have to pay for the disposable clone) PvP once a day...
As an added though: being against disposable clones is like being against insurance on the ships. They both would work to keep your isk investment secure, only that you can still use the ship, but you will not get any bonus from your implants. |
J'as Salarkin
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 16:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alright, I agree with what you write to 100%. Removing the learning implants and thus removing the risk is not a good idea (I also never suggested this as I think you have also realized).
I might just open up a thread in the suggestions forum about my disposable clone idea. I just posted it here as I thought it would provide a convenient solution for both sides of the argument. |
J'as Salarkin
Alpha Strategy
In Umbra Mortis
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 16:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Yes they should remove insurance after a character reaches a SP/Timeframe. Even still it's not really the same since insurance only lessens the loss it doesn't almost completely remove it.
The loss of using the disposable clone would be not gaining as much SP while using it and not being able to use any other skill/ship enhancing implants or drugs. Its not a loss measurable in isk yes, but a loss nonetheless.
Remvoing the insurance would be interesting, might push people to use smaller, less expensive ships for PvP, but it might just reduce the amount of people risking their ships in PvP all together. There are basically two types of PvP players, the ones which can afford to lose their implants and ships and those that can not. Keeping the insurance (atleast for new players) and adding the disposable clones would get more of the second group in to PvP and if they like it they might just keep on doing it.
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